How Do We Hire HVAC Technicians For The Skilled Trades?

How Is The Skilled Trades Industry Changing & How Do We Hire During This Change – Keith Flores

Tersh Blissett: Hello everyone out there in Podcast World. I hope you’re having a wonderful day. You’re listening to or watching the Service Business Mastery Podcast. I’m your host, Tersh Blissett with my co-host Joshua Crouch sitting next to me. And I’m excited to talk to Keith today. We have we have Keith Flores. The HVAC got on on the show today. He is definitely the best dressed guy and HRC, so.

Josh Crouch: I don’t know about that. Maybe, maybe you guys can go hand in hand and do a little combat there.

Tersh Blissett: No, no, he definitely he’s got me 100%. And and if you’re on Instagram, I mean, he made a huge splash a couple of years back and really was helping out make the trade and industry really well known. And kudos to Keith for that. And he like man it was it was awesome watching him just come on the scene and everything [00:01:00] and I’m not like I don’t have a huge, massive following on Instagram. I typically troll Instagram, not necessarily in a bad way. I just like I’m the, I guess the creeper. I just like check out people’s stuff, comment on their stuff, and then that’s about it. Like, I don’t post like I should, you know, on Instagram. But today we’re going to talk about a little bit about hiring during like how the industry is changing in general, but then hiring during that disruption of the of the industry and how things are changing up. Keith is the CEO of Oh man simply Silly Holdings, man. I didn’t even ask I didn’t ask Keith beforehand.

Josh Crouch: Oh, he’s laughing at us in the back room, so we probably set it wrong.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah. Oh yeah. And HVAC got in and has HG Home Services, which is his service company. He’s an accomplished entrepreneur with super [00:02:00] critical thinking, he’s super critical thinker and has amazing leadership skills, got over 30 years of operational skills, sales and marketing achievements in the industry.

Josh Crouch: I don’t even think he looks old enough to have that much experience.

Tersh Blissett: Right. I mean, he started young.

Josh Crouch: He looks way younger than I am.

Tersh Blissett: Right, right, right. But he’s just passionate. He’s a passionate, committed leader. You can tell that by just watching his Instagram and all the social media. And so yeah, I’m super excited to talk to Keith today. And Josh, you got anything to add?

Josh Crouch: No. I remember following Keith. I know when he was doing a lot of the like the social media stuff was everywhere. And this is back when I was on the contractor side. And I was I always followed the stuff that he was doing kind of from a distance. Right. But it was very interesting seeing someone that was going kind of full on with the social media stuff because so track isn’t cool until you make it cool. And he did. [00:03:00] He did a really good job of kind of promoting that. And I’ve seen some of the videos and stuff that they used to do. It was really, really cool stuff. So excited to talk to him and get a little deeper and just learn from him today.

Tersh Blissett: I think one of my main, my favorite things about Keith and how he’s approached things is you don’t have to look like a a grungy tradesman, you know what I mean? And it’s like, Oh yeah, that’s my guy. But yeah, I mean, I’m excited to talk to Keith today.

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Tersh Blissett: Hey, Keith. Welcome to the show, man.

Keith Flores: Hey, how you guys doing? Okay. Yeah. So it’s sci fi, holding’s.

Tersh Blissett: Sci fi audience.

Josh Crouch: Yeah, I figured we screwed it up.

Keith Flores: I had allowed it because I felt like it. Oh, that’s.

Josh Crouch: Nice. I like.

Keith Flores: That. My. My business partner set that up, and I love it. I think it’s cool.

Tersh Blissett: That’s really cool, man. So tell us a little bit about yourself. For people who don’t know who you are, kind of your background and all that good jazz.

Keith Flores: The good, the good, the bad, the ugly. I started off when I was a quick story 12 years old in the trade. My brother in law [00:05:00] had me go to a side job with him. He said, Do you want to make some money? I said, Yeah, I got nothing to do. I’m riding my BMX, you know. And so I went to this house. I know the guy’s name and everything to this day crawled underneath this house, and my brother in law said, Just rip out all that stuff under there. So I just started ripping out stuff and I hear him up top, smoking a joint, laughing with this guy. And I’m like, What the heck? I get out. He shows me how to do a couple of dunks. It was a small duck system I crawl back under. By the end of the day, I was done. He said, Come by the house, come by the house tomorrow and I’ll pay you. And I was like, All right, rode my bike over to this house the next day and. You gave me 200 bucks out of his freezer. He pulls out a stack of cash out of his freezer and gives me 200 bucks. I’m 12 years old, maybe 12 and a half, and I was hooked after that.

Josh Crouch: Good money. That’s good money today.

Keith Flores: Any time you have anything for me, let me go. And after that, I was just

hooked. I loved the money, so. [00:06:00] Fast forward, I went to work for him, which was a family business, and then I left the family business and got in because that was strictly new construction and left the family business, which we had about 300 employees or so. We’re big. Wow. Everybody said you can’t make money in the industry. My family was just like, there’s no money in this industry. This is what you’re going to top out at and blah, blah, blah. And I had a guy over in my ear, a guy by the name of Lou Snavely is one service experts kept on telling me, I’ll give you a $10,000 signing bonus. I’ll do this, I’ll do that. And you’re going to make over 150,000 a year being an installer. I’m going, Whoa. So finally, I took the meeting, and I never looked back. I just. The first couple of days, I started making just ridiculous amounts of money and I was just like, Wait, what? This doesn’t make any sense. [00:07:00]

Tersh Blissett: And how old do you think you were at that point?

Keith Flores: Well, 19.

Tersh Blissett: Okay.

Keith Flores: I bought my first house when I was 19. Yeah, I took that $10,000 and. Dropped it on a down payment. Of course, houses are much more expensive nowadays. $10,000 wouldn’t be a.

Josh Crouch: $17 isn’t going to buy you much of even a room.

Keith Flores: No, no, not at all. So after that, you know, I worked for him for a lot of years. He taught me the ropes of basically the service out sells, like just getting out of my comfort zone. Great guy. From there. I know he left after we got bought and he started another company with air time and I went to work with him there, helped him start. He called me like a general manager, but [00:08:00] not really a general manager because he really didn’t wasn’t show me the back end stuff. Great, great guy. I can’t say enough about him, but. So then I decided to start my own business and built it up. I was 28. Got rid of it at 32 and then went to work for one of the big boys. The people that gobbled me up was Clockwork Social Services. Oh. So went to work for them. Ran.

We’re in that business for a while. Had a great time. Those were my college years, learned a lot. And then I just wanted to do something more. I wanted to get out of the every day and got into consulting whatever you want to call it. Helped out a lot of companies, but a couple of other companies, 50% of and took them from you know, whether it was one company we took a new construction company from 6 million to 14 [00:09:00] million in a year if we add it on service retrofit. And then another company that took on we were doing about 200,000 a year and built it up to about ten or 11 million a year within two years. Whoa.

Tersh Blissett: Can I ask you about that? Yeah. So do you feel like that is geographically relevant to be able to scale like that? I mean, do you feel like there needs to be a certain amount of residents in an area for you to be? I feel like that.

Keith Flores: I feel it’s guys just letting them drop.

Tersh Blissett: But what do you.

Keith Flores: Mean by letting them drop? Letting your balls go? Sorry, man. Just let them go. Just dropping them out there and saying let’s. Let’s do it. Like if you can’t do that.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah.

Keith Flores: You know, and there’s a lot of big players in my neighborhood. You know them all. I’m not going to mention their names, but there’s a lot of big players in my neighborhood. Those [00:10:00] guys all just went for it, right? And for me, right now, what I’m doing, I’m not really going for it. I’m trying to do some other stuff, but. My biggest thing is you’ve got to be willing to take the risk, take the challenge. You know, I see a lot of two, three man guys, and they come to me. I got guys in here usually. At least two different companies a week will stop by my office because I’m open book. I’m like, Hey, stop by any time. You know, your first hour or two, we’ll shoot the shit. And after that then it’s going to get expensive for you. But I the one thing I always get out of them is I just don’t have the money. I just don’t want I don’t want to take that leap. I don’t

want to make that that sacrifice. I’m like, well, then stay where you’re at. But, you know, and it’s not always it’s not always awesome to be the biggest, baddest guy on the planet. Right?

Tersh Blissett: I mean, for me, I feel like [00:11:00] there’s a point. Sometimes I feel like this way anyways. Heck, over the past year, I know I’ve felt this. It’s like, All right, so we’re growing. But I’m personally not making more money, but I’m getting a lot more stress. So at some point, should I just stop where I’m growing at and then just keep making that same amount of money? I know that there’s you know, there’s.

Keith Flores: There’s lots typically.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah, exactly. And it comes and goes for sure, especially if you’re focused on different things. Like for us it’s like we focus like Josh and I have focused a lot on the podcast over the past six months or so, and so that has taken away from my service companies and I know that, I recognize that. And so when things like hit the fan, it’s like, okay, it’s my fault. I should have focused in that area. And so Josh and I’ve talked about this before, [00:12:00] I’m, I’ve been bad in the past about delegation by application. Just be like, okay, go ahead and do it like you go do this. That’s your job. You do it and you take care of it and just check in me every now and then. And I didn’t have those KPIs that I necessarily would watch every single morning. And if I did have the KPIs, sometimes I didn’t know what the hell they meant. Like, it’s like, All right, cool. Like, this is amazing. I got these reports spitting out to me automatically.

Josh Crouch: They told me that number is good, so I’m good, right?

Tersh Blissett: Yeah. And then as soon as that number’s not right, it’s like, all right, shit. I don’t know what to do to make the number right now, you know?

Keith Flores: Well, it’s one of those things that whoever came up with all these KPIs, it was probably in the late eighties or early nineties.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah, things have changed.

Keith Flores: Because this business has changed, guys, you know, and I tell people this all the time, I’m always evolving. That’s one thing that I’ve learned over the years is take the good, the bad and be [00:13:00] willing to change. Get out of your comfort zone. You know, I always say this, quote, there’s no growth in your comfort zone. I stole it from Jocko Billings. You know, it’s one of those things that everybody looks and I hear so many big wigs, big dogs in our industry. I pay attention to KPIs. Pay this patient. I just. I don’t believe in all that, man. I really don’t like people. Thought I was nuts when COVID hit and I went all in on social media. Covid hit. We were getting 3 to 5 million views a month on social media. And I was I hired a content creator. He had a whole team. We crushed it. We were killing it every day. And I was spending a fortune and I stopped all my other advertising. I just went all in on social media and we grew the business very fast. Everybody else was cutting back. I’m over here just going wild with it and [00:14:00] I really feel like you can’t. So that right there, you cannot measure your your social media content, what it’s producing you for revenue, right?

Tersh Blissett: Yeah. Josh and I, we’ve talked about this before. It’s like how how do you measure that KPI? And not only that, most of the platforms out there are not accurate. Whenever they say, oh, you got this many impressions and this and they’re not consistent either. It’s like one platform.

Josh Crouch: With a different tracking number on it or something. It’s not that simple. Like you can’t pinpoint a certain video or a certain post. It’s a collaboration of everything that you’ve developed that continues to grow over time, which is all in that branding.

Keith Flores: The brand. Yeah, it’s 100% of brand play. And what I started figuring out is for me, you know, I don’t know if you guys know this how many people we’re going to lose in our trades over the next 4 to 5 years. [00:15:00]

Tersh Blissett: It’s a lot. I know that.

Keith Flores: It’s between 250 to 500000.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah, I believe it.

Keith Flores: Because what are we going to do in.

Tersh Blissett: 2017 or early 2018? I did some deep diving research and it took me surprisingly a lot longer than what it should have to locate this number. But the average age of a plumber is was 65 at that time. Like, that’s blows my mind that the average plumber was 65 years old in 2018.

Keith Flores: Do you know why, though, right?

Tersh Blissett: I mean, there’s a lot of things people want.

Keith Flores: The number one thing is. As a plumber. It’s blue collar, right? Reach back, tradesman, blue collar. And then back in the day, our dads did not want us to get into this blue collar trade. Right. They want us to go to college. They want us to go. They didn’t want us. So we lost a generation. [00:16:00] So now what I’m really hyper focused in on is how do we make it sexy? How do we make the trade sexy enough to get people to come back into our trades? I go and I talk at colleges, great universities. You know, I was just at one recently. I go and talk to high schools, trade schools. I just talk to anybody out on the streets even. I mean, I had a guy last night DM me and say, how do I get in the industry? I said, Where are you located? He goes, Roland Heights. I said, That’s probably 30 minutes from my house. Come on over. We’ll have a conversation. So he’s coming over actually Monday to my office and we’re going to have a conversation about how to get into the trades people. You said at the beginning about how I dress. People look at me and go, dude.

Tersh Blissett: Saying.

Keith Flores: Come on, you’re an fat guy. And I said, Yeah, I’m a ten knocker. You want me to bust out a skirt around right now? I can I can make a skirt [00:17:00] around like, you know, you want me to go to install a flow system? No problem. You want me to curl that? I went out to a service call last night. I walk up to the front door. The guy goes,

Fuck, you’re going to be expensive. And I just laughed. I was like, Hey, it depends what you think expensive is. Yeah. And then he’d say, Come on in, walk the way. Got the job like. It doesn’t matter how you dress. I feel like we everybody in our industry should dress the part. Everybody in our industry should feel good. Look good. If you don’t like it, don’t wear a suit. You should always you should always. Like all my texts I went above and beyond all my texts where Carhart from Santos, their wow factor. They just came out with a whole Carhartt line that has Carhartt pants, Carhart shirts. I’m spending a lot more on their uniforms, but I want them to be excited and happy for what they’re wearing. And then our vehicles, our vehicles are all brand [00:18:00] new. I didn’t want to go with the and I’m not going to name names, but the big splashy logos and colorful logos. I wanted something that when I was a tech, what did I want? And I was the cool guy.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah, no, I’ve loved the brands that you’ve you’ve represented over the past several years. I would tell you that, like, hardcore. Every one of my vehicles are sat in black and have a have a set in black. Well, my trucks and my wife’s vehicles are either painted or wrapped in satin black and have been since I was 16. That was my thing. I mean, I’ve always loved this and it’s it stands out for sure, too. How do you think that has affected or do you think it has affected you in a negative way by not having the super flashy brand that’s that’s very popular currently.

Keith Flores: I [00:19:00] don’t think it’s affected me in any way other than it’s promoted me more. For employees. Employees want to drive something cool. When I was a young cat getting in the industry, I wanted that cool foreman’s truck, you know? I wanted. I didn’t want the big logos all over the sides. I didn’t want all that stuff. So for recruiting, I feel like it’s really good because we didn’t remember the big yellow vans that were everywhere, all over the nation. Who the hell wanted to drive those? I remember most of the techs out of Vegas would put car covers over them because they didn’t want them in their neighborhoods. Oh, that’s so, so, so. I mean, and you see a lot of these big flashy logos and you got kids on the sides of trucks, you got, you know, bumblebees and all this other stuff all over the truck. They’re cool. They catch people’s eye. I do zero advertising. I don’t know, no marketing. And I’m growing my business. Over the next two years. All you know. More [00:20:00] than ten exits. So with no

advertising, I’m still not doing advertising. I’ll do how.

Tersh Blissett: Many? How are you getting leads coming in?

Keith Flores: That’s the secret sauce.

Tersh Blissett: I know. I know. Because we do advertise, and there’s times when I’m like, Oh, man, we need to get the phone to ring. You know.

Keith Flores: That’s that’s the secret sauce. That’s not anything I’m launching anytime soon. But I do. I network. So personally, I will go out and network with whoever’s the biggest in our community and business and make sure I talk with them once a week.

Tersh Blissett: Like Chamber of Commerce type stuff, new.

Keith Flores: Owners, the straight, big business owners in in the area, whoever they are, I find out who they are and I want them to know that I’m their service provider and tell their friends.

Tersh Blissett: Now, do you ever give these people, like, a cheaper rate to get into with them and then with [00:21:00] the hopes that maybe they will say, hey, this is the guy that does my stuff? Since they have such a large network.

Keith Flores: I give them my friendship.

Tersh Blissett: Okay.

Keith Flores: I’m not I’m not big on discounting, which everybody says, but we all discount like. So I don’t give a shit who you are. You all discount. Like, stop the lies. I hear everybody up on stage going, We don’t discount. We don’t. Come on. And so. But what I do do is like, yeah, I’ll give them like a break or something like that. But most of the time I just develop a relationship where we’re going out to lunch, we’re going out to dinner or breakfast, whatever. I invite them over my office. I’ll. So I have a good network

like my partner. I’m not trying to namedrop, but all of our Knickmeyer, the Knickmeyer family is, I think, seven generations of a European business that they own CNA, which is the largest clothing company in the world. And. I’ve [00:22:00] used his network to network me more like children. He was the head of Disney Pixar International Retail for a long time. So we’ve gotten to be able.

Tersh Blissett: You got a network? Network?

Keith Flores: Yeah. Now I have a real network. That’s insane.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah. What would you say to people who don’t have that like so I’m not from SoCal. I don’t have that connection. Heck, just assume that I just moved in. I just moved to Savannah. I don’t know a soul in this town, but I.

Keith Flores: Would go, I would meet I would go meet the owner of Ace Hardware. Every one of those little Ace Hardware’s. Everybody knows there’s an owner. There’s they’re independently owned. I would just start meeting the the bigger restaurants, meeting with the owners, talking with them. You know, I just met with a coffee shop next door recently, and I met with the owner and I said, Hey, you know, I’m going to do some giveaways. If I buy $1,000 worth of [00:23:00] coffee gift cards, will you give me $1,500 worth or whatever it is? And no problem. Like there’s certain things that I’ll kind of do and get out of my comfort zone and my wife thinks I’m crazy all the time because I’m always the one that just talking to everybody. I don’t care who you are.

Tersh Blissett: Dude. I have so I have a buddy of mine and I thought this was the wildest thing in the world until I went and visited his place. I’m not going to say where he’s at because I haven’t asked him about if I could share this. But I will say that for years and years he picked up the bar tab like he’d go places and at the end of the night he’d pick up the bar tab and and he and his guy, like his right hand man, was like, dude, this is nuts. Like, this is crazy. This is five grand. Like, we’re we’re hanging out. But now [00:24:00] all those the bartenders and the bar backs, they own bars and the bar owners at those locations, they all remember him. And so, like, he owns that town because especially like the downtown area, because that’s what he’s done for years.

And so he developed relationships with these people for years and years. And he took me out on the town, blew my mind, like we’re at the we’re in the penthouse of this sky skyscraper, and they had this store at the top of it and he’s like, Yeah, man, this guy was a such I think he was a bartender or something. Now he owns this whole building. He actually owned the whole block. And I was like, Dude, like, you just fell into it, like, and he was like, Man, it goes back to back in the day whenever I was just, you know, I took care of everybody and they all remember it.

Keith Flores: Yeah. You know, I [00:25:00] network a lot. You know, we did so just recently we did that he owns a bunch of taboo taboos and he just franchises doing some out in Dallas. He’s doing them all over.

Tersh Blissett: What’s that?

Keith Flores: It’s like where you cook your own, like, meats and stuff and boil it in water. So, I mean, it’s pretty good size. And I think he has 15, 16 locations. We’ve. We did his house a month ago. We’ve already got probably 8 to 10 leads off of that one house because he’s just telling everybody how great of a job we did.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah, that wow. Service.

Keith Flores: Yeah. And then we did this company called Optima Salons. They’re doing like I think 42 this year and we’re doing all of them for them. But again, he has a big base of people and I keep on getting like we had one, we don’t care about the price, we just want to get it installed on Saturday. Just come out and we’re like, wait till you get [00:26:00] price. Yeah. Have you ever done that?

Tersh Blissett: And then just taking them on their word and they’re like, Oh shit, this is way too much. I didn’t expect it to be as much. I did that once, or actually a tech of mine did it, and I let it go through and I was like, okay, you know, you have your you got your feelers, you felt them out, not me. I trust you. And then they’re like, Oh, no, that’s way too much. I’m like, Sign the estimate every time. Sign the estimate.

Keith Flores: Yeah, that’s happened to me with techs. Yeah, for sure. One of the big things that also I noticed is like the building I’m sitting in right now, it’s a union bank building. So we’re on a corner where you can see all the cars going back and forth. I don’t we have a couple of trucks in the parking lot during the weekends and at night I have my name on the front of the building, so it’s lit up. That’s great advertising right there. So that’s kind of advertising, brand impressions. Yeah. [00:27:00] And people I see my big competitors coming in and putting billboards all around my town and I just laugh. I’m like, Keep doing it. Keep doing it. Go, go. You know, I pretty much already own this little area, and it’s it’s pretty amazing to me how fast it happened for me. So it goes back to customer service.

Tersh Blissett: Oh, yeah. No, I agree 100%. They’re going to remember you. The thing about it is, is the next time they need the service or when someone’s asking about it, when you’re relying on that referral marketing, do they remember you? Did you make that much of an impression on them to where they remember an impression in the good way anyways? Because if it’s if it’s that bad that they remember you in a bad way, they’re going to tell everyone not to use. It’ll go that way. So let me ask you this question. And I was thinking about it whenever you were talking earlier in introduction, and then someone actually asked it from the Facebook group. But what would you tell the 1 to 3 man shows that [00:28:00] that give you that I ain’t got no money, I don’t have the cash flow. And especially so what I think about in this scenario was the first business that I started. We really bootstrapped it. I didn’t have credit. Like my credit was not great because I had just bought a house recently, just gotten married a couple of years before that I had gone through a divorce and racked up credit cards and like was not responsible at all. And I knew that and I took ownership of it. But going into that, like, I couldn’t go get a lot of credit because I had no history of ownership because we literally were just starting out our business. What what do you like? Would you just, like, buckle down for a couple of years to get that history go in or you’re shaking your head. I want to know.

Keith Flores: No. So my first company, I went all [00:29:00] in and I literally I was like, you know, young cat didn’t understand didn’t understand the back end side of the industry. I just went and figured out who can I get loans from and start borrowing? Most

companies have it’s a startup company. They’re not going to give you a line of credit bank. I don’t care what type of industry. Right. So there’s there’s these stupid hard money ones, which I had a group just do. They were able to pull out, like $300,000. And, you know, what I explain to them is, hey, make sure you can cover that, because that’s coming out every week, you know, but, you know, spend the money, right? And you’ll be able to do it. And I think it boils down to, you know, you got to just make the sacrifices. Maybe you’re not going to go on a trip. Maybe you’re not going to whatever it is you’ve got, if you’re going to, you got to want it first. First off. And your wife has to want it, too. Right. There’s two people involved. [00:30:00] You got to make sure that’s involved. Then from there, you really have to. Figure out what’s your next play? Reach out to somebody that’s done it already. And what I mean by that is, like, there’s so many of us out there that have done it and figured out a way. I’ve never had to take money, individuals money. I’ve been able to self-fund. So I’ve always had to buckle down and go, all right. The next six months, we’re not going to eat out every night, you know? Yeah. That in those rural areas and those small markets. It’s it’s harder, right? But like my first company when I was 28. The town was 908 hundred 800 people. The next town was 20 minutes away and we took a 0 to $4 million company in two years with no capital. [00:31:00]

Tersh Blissett: Now that’s wild. And how? How so? Can you go in with that mindset? Can you can that happen if your thought process is very technical and less sales? Because I have and I say that because the word sales is taboo sometimes in our in our.

Keith Flores: I love the word sales.

Tersh Blissett: I know. And if you are the type person where you’re not a sales person, you’re not good at that. You’re more focused on fixing, fixing, fixing, making the systems last and all of that. Is is it possible to do this by doing that or do you have to sell system replacements and also.

Keith Flores: That sell systems?

Tersh Blissett: The pricing like one of the things for me like you can’t bootstrap a

company if you’re pricing wrong. Like [00:32:00] if you take a loan out and you’re pricing wrong, you’ll, you’ll survive until you run out of money. But if you’re bootstrapping, if you’re starting up a note with no outside influence, cash flow, you can’t have the wrong prices. And I think that’s a that’s a big deal in our industry. People starting up a business thinking, I only need to charge $45 an hour because I’m only paying myself $20 an hour. You know what I mean?

Keith Flores: I think pricing is key. You know, like 189 an hour is probably about the bare minimum you want to charge, but you have to. So if you’re a tech. And you’re just 100% tech. You’re not going to get the check. Right? You need to you need. You need to get out there and figure out if if you don’t like cells, you need to understand cells then. And what I mean by that is everybody’s selling. Right. Everybody’s selling. Whether you’re at Chase Bank and they’re trying to upsell you on [00:33:00] getting another savings account or if you’re at I don’t eat fast food, but I remember back in the day when I was kind of pudgy, I would go to a fast food all the time and in the drive thru going, Hey, like.

Tersh Blissett: Fries with that.

Keith Flores: Super size. When you want a super size that they’re selling you. You’re selling your wife every night. Hey, babe, come on. Tonight’s the night. Right. Or she’s selling. You know, it’s got a headache, you know? So no matter what, there’s always sales going on. And people don’t understand that no matter what you do in life, you’re selling. If you’re a college professor, you’re selling those kids what you know. That’s a good point, right? Everything we do in life is sells. So all these.

Tersh Blissett: A lot of people that.

Josh Crouch: Even this mindset, they don’t they’re.

Tersh Blissett: Selling. They’re selling without knowing that they’re selling. And 100%, a lot of times, like we provide options. That’s what we do. We’re we we are not hard close there, but we just [00:34:00] provide options and that’s our sales process is to

provide those options to everybody and develop the relationship and learn exactly what it is that they they want and need in their their home. And then we provide the options to solve those problems that they have. And as long as you’re being a problem solver, you know, you’ve sold your time that is equivalent to the money.

Keith Flores: So you don’t have to be some crazy hardcore closer. Yeah to understand sells you like you do need closers don’t get me wrong, but you also need to explain to the customers and guide them down the path. You know, I hear these rebuttal books and all this other BS that comes out and all these guys that have these networks and can do this and they can do that. Now, you’ve got to be truthful and honest with your customers and they’ll buy from you. You’ve got to build that relationship, that rapport back and forth and show them give them options. All my texts give four options. You got [00:35:00] your basic option, your next option, your other option. Then you have the option to do absolutely nothing. And I want that put out there that just pay the diagnostic fee. You can choose another company because some customers we don’t want either. Right. But you have to have a sales process in place. You know, you get some guru to come out to your shop for a day or two and train all your techs and you’ve got to spike for 2 to 3 days and then all of a sudden it’s gone. It’s because they didn’t believe in the whole process. So what every business owner needs to do is create their own process. I have a product. Don’t have it sitting next to me right now. Oh yeah, I have a process book. It’s a whole process and I’m a little company. I give it to all my guys and say, Here, this is what we do. And it’s not a closer look. It’s just, this is a process. You follow these. Guess what that’s going to happen for you. Yeah. And we’re not telling people [00:36:00] to go break things. We’re not telling. We’re telling them to do what’s right. Treat them like your grandmother’s house, you know.

Tersh Blissett: Exactly. They didn’t call you out there. They didn’t call us out to just hanging out with us. There was an issue with their system, their comfort. Something was going on. That’s the reason why they called us to come out and take a look at their system.

Keith Flores: Yeah. And going back to your question, the three man to man, five man shots, it’s really boils down to. Figuring out what your five year strategy is. Start with the

24 months and then go 60 months and figure out where do you want to be? Are you looking to build it, to sell it, or are you looking to build it to create a legacy? Right.

Tersh Blissett: What would you say to something like even if you’re not thinking about selling it, should you build it to sell it?

Keith Flores: I’ve had so many people ask me that recently because.

Josh Crouch: That’s because [00:37:00] there’s so much money coming in.

Keith Flores: Private equity is stupid in our market right now. That’s why these guys got I don’t know how many guys I’ve talked to recently. Yeah, you should. But on the flip side, if you have a son that you want them to take over someday or, you know, I want the industry has been so good to me. I’ve been like, I can’t say it enough. The good, bad or indifferent that people either hate me or love me. If you get to know me, you’re going to like me like. Oh, yeah, it is what it is. I try and give back as much as I can to the industry. And so when it comes to this question, it’s very difficult because I have a friend of mine who’s a big business owner down here in Southern California, and he’s been trying to sell his business because private equity came through. He’s got four different offers on the table. He came to me and asked me if I wanted to buy it. We penciled it all out and I said, But I won’t mention his name. I said, [00:38:00] Hey, bud, your business. To me is not worth what private equity is giving you because they’re.

Tersh Blissett: Giving China easy money out right.

Keith Flores: Now. You’re trying to put $1,000,000 in add backs. It just it doesn’t make any sense to me. But I went through his offers and I said, look, this is the offer I would take. But he didn’t. He has two sons. He didn’t build his business to sell it. But he’s been in business 25 years. The $8 million business, it’s great business. But up until a year ago, he started like running it to sell it.

Tersh Blissett: Right. So that’s my that’s I guess that’s the reason why I ask the question. Like even if you don’t like, even if you have every intention of your kids taking

over the business, what happens whenever they come of age and they’re like, I don’t want anything to do with the business. I want to do, you know, I want to perform for the circus. And yeah, so it’s like. All right. Well, I’m at the age where I don’t want to do it anymore either. [00:39:00] So if you didn’t know.

Keith Flores: No matter what. Yeah, no matter what, you got to be in double digit profits, right?

Tersh Blissett: And can you do that and scale ten x?

Keith Flores: Yeah. Okay. Yes. So here’s here’s one of those stupid KPIs that you always hear about, right? Yeah. What’s the ratio that you guys have heard for every tech in the field? How many office people do you need?

Tersh Blissett: Oh, man.

Josh Crouch: Like 3 to 1.

Tersh Blissett: It ranges.

Keith Flores: I’ve heard 3 to 1. You’re a champion at.

Josh Crouch: Right. That’s the one that I hear the most.

Tersh Blissett: I’ve heard 8 to 1, but I mean, I’ve also heard that pigs could fly too. So, yeah.

Keith Flores: So my goal is to run it. There’s a little island. I hear that they swim. I don’t know if they can fly, but my goal is to this business right now. I’m going to have it running basically for every [00:40:00] ten employees, there’s going to be one office person. I think that’s where you profit.

Josh Crouch: I think with technology and stuff like that, this is becoming a little bit that’s

helping make things simpler, easier. Obviously, you still have to have good operations, good processes along with.

Keith Flores: That that the processes and understand. You don’t have to pay attention to the old school KPIs.

Tersh Blissett: That’s a good point.

Keith Flores: Really? I hear guys all the time, I won’t say their names because I’m friends with a lot of people in the industries and they keep you got to do it this way. You got to do it that way. You got to do it this way. I’m like, okay, cool. Because they don’t want to they don’t want to hear it. And they have big successful businesses, you know, very big. But me personally, what I’ve been doing when I’ve been able to manage this past year, I’m blown away. And now I’m going to focus in on some other stuff that I’m working on. And so I like I told you at the beginning this I hired a new general manager. [00:41:00] He’ll be starting next week, took him from another large company. He’s young, aggressive general manager, been around for a while. And when I laid out we signed an NDA and I laid out kind of what I’m doing. He was like. You know, you’re going to piss off everybody in the industry, right? I say let’s go do it. Let’s go like the disrupter. So back to your question. Yes. You can keep double digit profits and have that growth. You have. So even if you have bad credit, especially right now. Even if you have bad credit, you can go to Enterprise Fleet and get cars. You can go to your local Ford dealer. You’re going to pay a higher interest rate. They’re going to put you out like a level two. They have levels. Level one, level two, level three, level four, credit risk. You’re going to pay higher interest. But as long as that truck’s producing money for you.

Tersh Blissett: Not sitting in the driveway. [00:42:00]

Keith Flores: Yeah. And so that’s where you’re not always pulling money out of your pocket, but you will have a stress level, trust me. But as long as those. Those don’t hold on to guys too long.

Tersh Blissett: You know. Yeah.

Keith Flores: But for me, I’ve always tried to tell these guys that want to grow. Find a good operator. That way you can focus on your business and growing the business.

Tersh Blissett: That’s what I was going to ask. So GM versus controller, which what the title or.

Keith Flores: Or controller is more for accounting.

Tersh Blissett: Okay.

Keith Flores: General Manager. I’m going to eliminate operations manager, service manager, install manager and have a good general manager. And depending on what software we use, we’ll be able to tell how everything’s working. We have good lead guys out in the field [00:43:00] that were taken from some other companies, and I hate saying that, but it’s just it is what it is. I’m not. I don’t. I feel like I created a bunch of whores in the industry back in 2007 by putting these big sign on bonuses way back then. Yeah, everybody does it now. Those guys will bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce. I took it back. Way back when to. But I feel like if I just ring them into my office and if you could see my office, my office is like it doesn’t look like an all my furnitures as you can see it all white, my best or white, everything. My whole entire. We’re doing a build out. We’re starting today on our build out and we’re building out more offices. It’s all going to be white. I want everybody to walk in and feel good, look good, and just have a different feel. It’s a different age group that we’re after, so we’ve got to not necessarily flood them with money they want. They’re the Phillies, [00:44:00] right? They want to feel good. And so. You know, you’ve got to surround them with that. Feel good. And trust me, I’m. For a while there I was known as the hatchet because I was just like, Hey, fire them, fire that guy, fire that guy. But now I’ve evolved. I’ve started trying to change and trying to understand. I have my son works for me. He’s 23 years old, probably the best technician out there in the country. Not necessarily selling tech, but he’s a techie. Techie? Yeah. You didn’t learn it from me. He you know where he learned it from YouTube, of all places.

Tersh Blissett: Oh, yeah.

Keith Flores: He just I told him, dude, you can learn the tech part. I’ll teach you the sales part. So but it’s one of those things that even with him, I got to treat him different than the way my dad taught me or my dad trained me. My brother in law trained me. My brother in law would tell me, pardon my [00:45:00] French, I know it cuss a lot. But he tell me, Dude, go fucking hang that gutter. What are you afraid of? It’s three stories. Who cares? It’s an eight on 12 pitch. You don’t need a harness.

Tersh Blissett: What’s going to bounce off the ground?

Keith Flores: Yeah, and I’d go do it, you know, and it was just different times. So we got to evolve.

Tersh Blissett: So back to the controller versus GM question. I don’t think I was clear in the question that I guess I was asking. There is Gene on LinkedIn actually mentioned it to which in your opinion, do we implement first? I guess obviously you have GM, do you already have a controller or will you bring on a controller? I know of some people who they brought on controllers first and our controller first and have grown steadily by doing that.

Keith Flores: So I have I’m bringing on my GM first [00:46:00] for sure. I will be bringing on a controller. It’s going to be a remote controller. That sounds funny. Remote controller. My controller will be a guy by the name of Peter Jurgen. You can look him up. He’s the founder of Keurig.

Tersh Blissett: Okay. Wow. So you’re not shooting for the stars or anything.

Keith Flores: He’s already he’s he’s been begging me to join the team, so not begging, but keeps on bugging me. So I have like I said, my network is very deep now and I’m not just running around with the same typical guys. I’ve gotten out of my comfort zone and had a lot of big lunches with a lot of different people from outside our industry that didn’t understand our industry whatsoever. And when I started talking about back to

these guys, they’re going. Who is this guy? And then they started going. There’s like Oliver. He’s like, Wait, wait, wait, hold on. [00:47:00] There’s a huge industry here, and nobody’s doing anything with it. And I’m like, there’s there’s people doing it. He goes, No, no, no. They’re buying companies and then stacking them and then reselling them and buying another company, stacking it on it. I go, Yeah, because there’s, there’s something bigger we can do here.

Tersh Blissett: I mean, that’s similar to the conversation that we had a few months back. We were at the Air Expo and we spoke with Brandon Dawson, he’s partner with Grant Gordon, and they’re coming in and they’re like, Wow, like we see the same exact thing going on and it’s like, let’s get a part of it. Like, let’s make sure that this is done and and make sure that people aren’t getting screwed during the process. That same time.

Keith Flores: We talked I talked with Grant and his team three years ago. I enjoyed it. I liked it. Nothing. I love all his books, everything else. I love [00:48:00] the outside of the box. Thinking the type of sells that they do is really kind of.

Tersh Blissett: In your face.

Keith Flores: Yeah. Which is good. Sometimes you need that. It work. Customers.

Tersh Blissett: It works at certain times.

Keith Flores: Yeah, but. What I like with the team that we’re building right now is they’re all outside the box thinkers and. They’re not trying to reinvent our industry. They just want to add something to the industry. So they love the input that I’m not afraid to put out there and get involved with different things. It’s sweet. It’s very different. It’s very different.

Tersh Blissett: I’m excited when that time comes to talk about it, for sure.

Keith Flores: Yeah, yeah. It’s it’s very exciting. You know, I got a guy on my team

named Mark. I mean, this guy, he’s an engineer, [00:49:00] and he invented some of the craziest stuff that you’ve ever seen in your life. One of them is, you know, the license plate recognition where the cops use, the toll roads use. That’s my guy. He’s my engineer.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah. One of my technicians would love to thank him personally. I got a mail in the mail about a week or two ago. A ticket for him speeding and. Yeah, so?

Keith Flores: So that the guy that created that is here all the time in my office. And he is just like when you talk when you talk to him, you’re just like, he was teaching me coding like a week ago trying to. And I’ve said they’re going, Oh yeah, yeah. It’s just numbers all over the screen. And he’s telling me how much stuff it’s reading per second. And I said, yeah. And then finally I was just like, I need because you got it. And I’m like, No, no.

Tersh Blissett: That’s like, that’s like Justin Riley. He’s, he’s in the chat. He was in the chat [00:50:00] earlier anyways. And he starts talking to me about some, some of these big data. I’m like, I guess if you say so, because you’re like, way over my head on this stuff, man.

Keith Flores: Well, one of the one of the big things that I have a challenge with our industry is there’s no outliers, really. There’s nobody that has I mean, what’s what’s been big in our industry that’s been a big change over the past. We’ll call it 20 years. We jumped up a seer to.

Tersh Blissett: See.

Keith Flores: Him out here.

Tersh Blissett: See, your two’s coming out? Yeah, but that’s. I mean, it’s still behind. I mean, we’ve Josh and I’ve talked about this before. Our industry is several years behind. Other industries in technology was.

Josh Crouch: Even all the technology that’s come about is still way behind what like what they’re doing with e-commerce sites and all these other things. Like we just don’t have that level of understanding like that, that that floor is so low like we got it raises [00:51:00] the floor so we can everybody else’s knowledge can get better. But nobody. Some people aren’t even emailing their customer base like let’s get real. They’re not even doing basic things just to keep in touch with their customers.

Keith Flores: Well, nobody’s nobody’s even touched on that, you know, and like one of my one of my challenges is like so Mark, he in 1989, he created the first website for Irvine, California, the city of Irvine. 1989 charged them. I think a half a million dollars. And guess what? Guess what? So the Newport said, Hey, I want that. Guess what? The city of Costa mesa. I want that city of LA. I want that. So he ended up doing pretty much all of the United States, all the different city websites, and then the police needed something to integrate with it, the fire departments. And so he he did very well for himself way back when on [00:52:00] those platforms. So when he sees our websites, he’s like. Goes.

Tersh Blissett: And it’s progressed a little bit, man.

Keith Flores: It’s true, though. We’re all cookie cutter. We all do the same stuff we all like. There’s nothing like that just really breaks out to you. You know, you got guys like Leland Smith. Guys killing it, dominating. Very. And it’s the same stuff, right? Can Goodrich a friend of mine? Both of them. They dominate the market. Same stuff. Like nobody’s really been that I’ve been. I keep on saying, like one of those guys or like Gary, Alex or one of those guys are just going to just embarrass the hell out of us all one day, like with something that just was so simple that we should have all been doing all along.

Tersh Blissett: Well, that was my grand theme. That was my grand plan, which has not come to fruition with remote operations and being able to remote [00:53:00] have a business completely remote. And I was thinking, you know, if I can do this, prove it and do it in several different locations, completely remote. Why couldn’t I do it across the whole nation? And the. So far, it’s work. But it’s not as simple as I kind of thought it

would be.

Keith Flores: But yeah, I actually was talking I was talking recently with a friend of mine. You guys might know him, Alan, Craig, and we were talking about doing some stuff and. It was this doing, having a bunch of remote locations and being able to do it offsite. And it’s still we still have to have that people communication in between. There’s like, I don’t know how we get away from that because you always have that one tech that wants to push the boundaries and oh.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah, yeah, I’ve had those texts and they been promoted to different locations, not [00:54:00] mine.

Keith Flores: And one of those things, you know, the one thing I keep on looking at software for the past two months, I’ve dove into every software there is to try and figure out how I can run my business easier and so forth. And I’ve been a service on service Titan for since 2014. Love the platform. I just wanted to see what was out there before I jumped right into it. And there’s a lot of cool stuff out there. There’s Sara’s really cool. Fixer Five’s really cool. Phil Pulse really stepped up recently and changed a ton of their software. And it’s all those ones. You get what you pay for. Of course, that’s what they always tell you. But I mean, you’re talking a quarter of the price.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah. I mean, so it’s funny you mentioned that term. You get what you pay for because I dropped that one time. And the guy was like. I was [00:55:00] talking to you about it. He was like, Well, actually, you’re cheaper than the the guy that you’re talking about. I was like, Oh, shit, I should have known that before I ever opened my mouth. So, I mean, there’s times where I’ve I’ve paid more, assuming now this is a pure assumption and it’s not on this, this particular topic. But I’ve paid more assuming that I would get more and and I assumed that it was you get what you pay for. And like I if I paid a whole lot more, then I would get an amazing service and amazing all this other stuff. And it wasn’t, it was the same, maybe a little bit better. Not worth the difference in the price. You know, and it’s it’s tough not knowing that that coming in like a small business owner and you’re trying to figure out what’s going on, you don’t know what you don’t know until you know. So, like, sometimes it’s a costly mistake to do that. I paid for

a coaching organization that put me into [00:56:00] a contract and it wasn’t a bunch of money. It was a couple of hundred bucks a month. But like it was a a website, 1.0. Like it was old, old stuff and it was everything that was there was on the internet already and there was no actual coaching going on. You just had to self learn and he could track everything that you downloaded and stuff like that. And he was like such a weasel. And I was like, Man, I’m not paying you for this. Like I got into it and I’m not paying you for this. And he was like, Oh, you’re on a 18 month contract or a 24 month contract or something like that. I was like, All right, I’m calling my lawyer and like I called him, but they like his contract was.

Keith Flores: So.

Tersh Blissett: Like well written that like he like and that was his whole thing was write your terms and conditions so you can’t you never give their money back. And I was like, that should have been the first red flag for me. Like, I should have seen that coming, that that’s [00:57:00] exactly what he did and that’s what the lawyer said. And I was like, that blasted, like, here I am paying a couple hundred bucks.

Keith Flores: Well, here’s one of the things that I best advice I can ever give guys is if you’re going to go hire a consultant, a sales trainer, a coach, whatever you want to call a team leader, whatever you make sure they owned or have owned or still own HVAC in home service company, plain and simple. All these fucking guys that are out there going, Yeah, hire me $20,000. I’ll come out and I’ll get up on stage and I’ll cheer and run to you. You’ve never been in our boots, man. Like, come on.

Tersh Blissett: I was a I led a company for several years and I thought I knew what it was, what it was to own a business until I owned a business. And it’s like. There’s a lot I didn’t know, like, and I felt like I knew a lot with that business because I did a lot, you know, day to day operations was [00:58:00] I was a shot caller. Like, people came to me for stuff. But even just the sheer stress of being the business owner, like there are 15, 15 families that rely on you every single.

Keith Flores: It’s a different it’s a different game. Plus you have to have my wife,

Christine. She’s my like this morning get out of bed, you know, like she loves me to death. But she’s like, hey, you need to have that partner that’s always wanting to see you succeed and understand that this is not an 8 to 5 job. This is, you know, hey, it’s 24 seven if you want to be a true entrepreneur. There is no times, you know, you just got to go after it. And I my wife pushes me on the daily to be better when I’m feeling like you. Because when you’re. When you’re the boss and you’re at the top. Who are you going to go back to? Hey, you know, they’ll be days where I’m [00:59:00] just like, what am I doing? And she’s like, Babe, she’ll send me a text. You’re doing great. Good job. Keep it up. And I’m like, You have no idea what I’m going through. And she’s like, No, I do like, look. So you have to you have to have that, too. And the other thing is keeping your mind right. The physical fitness part of it is big to me. If you’re not eating healthy and working out like. I feel like I’m still 25 years old. You know, I keep keep myself up, you know.

Tersh Blissett: And yeah, that’s something I definitely picked up the cove at 15. I, I definitely slacked off on taking care of myself. And you could tell I could. Easy to do.

Josh Crouch: You know. It’s easy to slack off on that. All it takes is one or two days doing, like, traveling, and all of a sudden you’re out of your rhythm. And it takes you three weeks to get back in rhythm.

Keith Flores: But you have to have that partner. That pushes [01:00:00] you to stay on that track. See, my wife keeps me there. She’s like, no matter what. So she’ll make me feel so bad. Like, I’ll say, Hey, let’s go get ice cream for the kids. And she, like, looks at me. No, we can go get pressed. And I’m like, pressed is like some crap that looks like ice cream, but it’s not. And my kids love it because they don’t know any different. I’m like, Oh man, but it’s 100% right. It’s what you put in and then your mind feels better and so forth. So it’s. It’s. I don’t know, man, if anybody can get anything out of this is, you know. Be willing to let go of all the. So I have a famous quote. My famous quote. Get rid of your keys. Right. You go on all my stuff that it always says, get rid of your keys. And the reason what that means is you ever go into that junk drawer or you get your keychain and you have a million keys, you don’t know what that key is. There you go to the junk [01:01:00] drawer and it’s like, what is that? It means, just let go of some of it.

You don’t need it. So let it go so you’ll have haters. I get haters all the time because the fat God moniker, they don’t know. It started off at 18 as a joke.

Tersh Blissett: You know, I had people reach out to me and be like, man, that’s. That’s kind of bold. Yeah. And it’s like. Yeah. I mean, I get it. But at the same time, if you if you knew him, like, it’s not like that. It’s more of obviously it was a joke to start off with because the dude is the most grounded down to earth guy out there. Like he doesn’t hold himself up on a pedestal at all.

Keith Flores: It was a joke. It started off at I think it was 19, maybe a guy by the name of Ken Starr. He owns American Home Comfort here in Southern California. $25 million shop. Me and him kind of jumped ship, went into a I left my family business. He left his family business. We went into together. We’re [01:02:00] out in the parking lot. We just introduced ourselves and on the back. I don’t know if you guys remember the bumper stickers that got Jesus. Yeah, we had that on the back of his service van that he pulled into the parking lot. And I said, Well, if you’re Jesus, I’m God.

Tersh Blissett: Oh, yeah.

Keith Flores: Couple couple of weeks later, I had the fat God logo license plate and that was it. It stuck ever since. And it was like just me and him having banter.

Tersh Blissett: Just bantering back and forth. Yeah, dude.

Keith Flores: Keith, you wouldn’t believe how many people flip me off going down the freeway.

Tersh Blissett: Well, hey, don’t bring it to the plate. Don’t bring it to the Bible Belt here. No, I’m just kidding. Man, man, we really appreciate the conversation. It’s really been a conversation between me and you. I’ve kind of cut Josh off 1000 times, not giving him any time to ask questions.

Josh Crouch: That’s right. Your fanboy.

Tersh Blissett: I mean, really, honestly, I love that every time that I get to interact with Keith, if anybody wants to reach out, learn more about you, follow you. Where’s [01:03:00] the where’s the best place for that to happen?

Keith Flores: Go on. My Instagram is always it has all my contact information. I’m always on Instagram, not always on. I usually try and post and then get off because you get sucked into that thing. But Instagram or Google.com, there’s some information on there. They can reach out to me through their my cell phone’s on everything. I’m not hiding from anybody.

Tersh Blissett: So cool, man. Well, we appreciate it. Josh, did you have any other questions before?

Josh Crouch: No, man. You covered everything.

Tersh Blissett: My bad. My bad.

Keith Flores: All right, guys. Josh is just trying to stay warm.

Josh Crouch: I am. I got, like, three layers on down here. This is literally, like, the only thing in my basement right now because we’re moving. So this is getting packed up. Like, as soon as we’re done.

Keith Flores: You’re going to go from minus weather to 120 something degrees.

Josh Crouch: In a movement in July.

Tersh Blissett: Yeah.

Keith Flores: Oh, God. You know, you have to have air conditioning in your garage there, right? Yeah, I heard I lived [01:04:00] out there for three months and my wife was like, What are you doing? Get out of here.

Tersh Blissett: That’s funny. Yeah, I might have to send Josh Water like has his moving package. His. Yeah. All right, guys, if y’all have any questions, don’t hesitate to reach out to Keith. I mean, he’s a great dude and always willing to help. But with that being said, I hope you have a wonderful and safe day until we talk again. Next time on Service Business Mastery Podcast. We’ll see you.

Keith Flores: I appreciate it. Yeah.

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